I'm frustrated. Maybe you can help me. :)

For quite awhile I've understood (at least to some extent) that modesty is important. From what I remember, the first time that the idea occurred to me was the time when my mom's friend made a comment about my shorts. I was about... seven or six, I think. I had this pair of bright pink shorts that I really loved. They stopped several inches above my knee.

So I got rid of them.

I think it was a few months later that I found a top that showed an inch or two of my belly. I don't remember who told me that it was immodest, but eventually I got rid of it for that reason.

So basically, I thought, as long as I don't show my belly, and don't show much of my legs, I'm modest. Fine.

But eventually it became clear to me that it's much, much more complicated than that.

On a message forum that I participate in every now and then, there was a discussion on modesty. A very, very lengthy discussion. As it went on, I began to realize that a lot of the clothing of which my wardrobe consisted is considered immodest by a lot of Christians.

So I got rid of it, of course.

Probably one of the main things was tight clothing. Someone posted that such clothing is immodest.

Fine, you can accuse me of having no brain if you want to. But to be perfectly honest, I had never really considered the idea that something tight, or even form-fitting like a simple button-down shirt, could be immodest.

There went about 75% of my wardrobe.

Then I was told that layering (LAYERING) of all things makes you look like you're just doing it because you have to. Supposedly, it "sends a message" saying that if you could, you'd just wear the immodest article by itself. You're only wearing the thing under it because you have to.

Wait. What?

That's ridiculous.

Obviously, a person who believes this has no idea how difficult it is to dress modestly (at least for me). Well, I'll try to help you understand, sir. :)

If a girl really wants to avoid showing cleavage, stomach, and leg (and to avoid "showing your shape," as I'll get to in a moment), it seems to me that most people have three options:

1. Sew your own clothes.

2. Sell all of your possessions in order to hire a seamstress.

3. Wear a burka.

4. Layer.

Oops! That was four. ;)

We try - we really do. But most of the above is either impossible or over-the-top, in my opinion.

Back to the tightness issue.
The descriptions that people give is too vague for me, possibly due to that brainless thing again. How tight is too tight?
Someone on the modesty thread asserted that if it shows your shape, it is too tight.

Uh...
A loose t-shirt shows your shape. If you don't believe me, Google "girl in loose t shirt." It's, uh, still pretty obvious that she has a chest.

So, I guess I'm supposed to nail shoulder-straps to a barrel.

Oh, wait a second! That would be immodest, because the thin straps allow you to see part of your shoulders! ;)

And the barrel would have to be long enough to cover your knees, of course.

But wearing a barrel could be considered odd, and would draw unnatural attention, making it extremely immodest.
I guess that idea's ruled out.

*sadface*


All right, I'm getting long-winded here. I'm just going to rant a tiny bit more and then get to the point/request.

Lookie here:
http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/browse

Go to Posture/movement.

So... apparently I can't stretch in public. And apparently I can't run in public because running might cause something to bounce. And apparently I have to consider very carefully the way I pick something up off of the ground. And apparently I have to walk a certain way or else some people can't control themselves. Etc.

I'm having trouble believing that the way I reach down for something affects anything, especially because I'm not as attractive as most girls. And if a person is so lustful that they can't control their thoughts because of something so innocent, nothing I do will change that.


Disclaimer: This survey has brought to my attention a lot of things of which I would never have thought. It has helped, but I feel that it's still too subjective for my mind to understand. But I really have to give the Harris brothers much credit, because what they did is so, so, so much more helpful than what most people have offered. :) Thanks, guys!

But, unfortunately, the survey has basically reduced me to t-shirts and baggy jeans.

Okay. That is definitely enough ranting. :)




Tell me what you think about this subject. :)

Guys, do you have any specific guidelines for us girls? Can you assure us that you play the infinitely important role of keeping your thoughts clean? How important is modesty to you - both in the way that you dress (since the idea that no girls are visual is a lie!) and the way that girls around you dress? Do you appreciate our efforts? Is it possible for us to look nice while still being modest?

Girls, what are your standards, as specifically as you can explain them? Do you think that you can be pretty while still dressing in a way that pleases God? And most importantly (because I'm not sure), is anyone else confused about what is modest and what is not modest?

But I think my main, simple question for everyone is...


Can someone please tell me how tight is too tight? *pathetic whimper*

Cover Up

1 Corinthians 11:5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. ⁶If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

This is probably one of the most unpopular and most rarely obeyed command in the Bible. I suppose that is because many believe it lowers and subjugates women.

But in reality, it is a beautiful symbol of the harmony between Christ and his church.
Ephesians 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Culture
A commonly held theory is that women are exempt because it was a "cultural thing." However, looking at verse sixteen, we see that all women were expected to cover their heads, regardless of culture or background.
1 Corinthians 11:16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice - nor do the churches of God.

What if I don't get married?
I asked this question, and a wise woman explained to me why she believes it is a command for all women to follow. Notice in verse ten that women are to have a sign of authority "because of the angels." A woman bears witness that she believes in the biblical line of authority and is willing to submit to it.

I'm not certain what "because of the angels" means, but it could mean that by following this command we encourage the angels in their own obedience. It could serve as condemnation to fallen angels. Or it could be a marker of sorts that we are God's daughters and that we have his protection. I have seen this used as a reason not to cover my head, but it's ridiculous that God would place a command in the Bible, just to be followed by a reason not to obey.

I also do not believe that women ought to cover their heads at all times. Some believe that we should in light of Ephesians 4:18, which says to pray always. It is to be an outward sign for when everyone knows that a woman is praying or prophesying. Also, taking 1 Corinthians 11:4 into consideration (Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head) the same command would have to hold true for men. A man would never be allowed to cover his head. I see some inconsistencies here.

It was difficult and even embarrassing when I first decided to wear a head covering to church and when I pray. It's especially hard when no one else is doing it. But that's not what's important, thankfully. Imagine how pleased God is with his children when they obey him in everything because they love him, and not because they have to do it to earn his favor. It's really freeing to know that what other people think doesn't matter. That the only thing that matters is what God thinks of me. And I know that he loves me more than anyone else does, so what can I do but love him back, and demonstrate that love by obedience?

John 14:15 If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

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Victory!

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.



It is often preached that Christians are given the victory in Christ, and that they have the power to resist any temptation (1 Cor. 10:13). This fact is proven again and again throughout Scripture. But although victory from sin is preached, it is often minimized.
Recently, I listened to a sermon in which the preacher frequently referenced Galatians 5:24. "And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." After passionately affirming the implications of this fact, he began preaching just as fervently that Jesus knows that Christians will sin again, and just wants to love us and gently coax us out of our sin. Unfortunately, when he said that even Christians would sin every day, the preacher implied that God will never succeed in making us holy and sinless. According to this pastor, and many other people, although God crucified our flesh, it can still come to life. He tries every day to remove our sin. He fails.


When will people take God's holy Word literally?
When will they realize that God loves them too much to leave them in their sin?
When will they accept the fact that God is powerful enough to completely wash their sins from them, and crucify the flesh?

Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil...


I urge you to open your Bible as if you've never read it before. Erase from your mind all preconceived notions about doctrine. I challenge you to find a single verse of a true post-resurrection Christian sinning. You won't find it.

Praise the Lord for his victory! Praise the all-powerful God! He has shared his victory with those on earth, with those who choose to accept it!

Luke 11:9-10 So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

Currently my favorite passage:
1 Cor. 15:56-58 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God - he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

It's not in vain. He gives us the victory. We are not slaves of sin. We are victorious.
It's only because of Him.

John 8:10-11 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on try to sin no more. But you will, and that's okay. I'll forgive you.”

"Wait a minute," you say. "That's not what it says."
You're right. Jesus really said, "from now on, sin no more."

I've heard that he was using hyperbole. He was just making an extreme statement, telling her to reach for the goal of not sinning, and try her best.

But why on earth would he do that? Isn't that lying, telling her that she could live sinlessly when she really couldn't?

Wouldn't it be enough for Jesus to tell her to try her hardest to not sin again? She was certainly sorry enough to try.

She could get discouraged. When she sinned again, she would think she isn't a true Christian, because Jesus Christ Himself told her not to sin, and she failed him.



But what if Jesus really meant what he said?

No, he couldn't have. What about 1 John 1:8?
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Context, please.

6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

First of all, John says that if we sin, or walk in darkness, we aren't Christians. But then he says, if we say we don't sin, we aren't Christians as well. Contradiction?

Think of it this way. John is telling them that Christ cleanses us from the sins we have committed. But what if someone says, "Sin? What are you talking about? I've never sinned." John rebukes this person by saying, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He is telling the gnostic that yes, you have sin that must be forgiven, but Jesus will forgive your sins, and make you righteous (which means the same thing as sinless).

When Jesus told the woman to sin no more, he really meant that she should sin no more. Otherwise he would have been contradicting these Scriptures, as well as many more.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness
.
Gal. 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature (flesh); rather, serve one another in love.

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A Charge To Young Women
By Bryan Davis

"She is born with a passion to uplift, empower, and support. She is the mainstay and sail for the captain’s ship. She is the heat in the warrior’s resolve and the salve that heals his wounds. She is the heart that pumps vitality to every joint and sinew. Yes, she is a woman.

Every girl in existence has been lovingly fashioned—from her caring and sensitive brain, to her tender and compassionate hands, to her tireless feet—to be a pillar of strength and resolve. While she might not be a warrior who draws a sword, she is the healer who strengthens the warrior’s hands and heart. Without her, every weapon would drop in futility, every muscular arm would wilt, and every pair of tired legs would shuffle home in defeat, for the heart that drives the warrior forward has stopped beating.

Some young women choose to take up the sword themselves, to step out alone in the midst of darkness to carry a lantern to the lost, to battle oppression and bring relief to the abused and neglected, or to transport life-giving supplies to the destitute wherever they may be. Their partner is the Spirit of Christ, and their sword is His word. They must know Him well if they hope to shine His light and pierce the darkness without the help of an intimate human partner.

Speak the truth. Live the truth. Be the truth. Never let the faithless ones persuade you to abandon any of those three principles. Remember that you are an oracle of fire, as is every faithful follower of our Lord. For all true disciples possess the pure silver, purged of all dross, and the fire of God’s love burns within, an everlasting flame that others, even those who merely give lip-service to the truth, will never comprehend until you are able to pass along that fire from heart to heart.

Many girls will choose to partner with another in this pursuit, hoping to be the light, the energy, and the drive that pulses within the breast of another. Yet, some never discover what it means to be such a heart. They never learn the secret of the captain’s sail or the recipe of the healing salve. Why? Because they listen to a counterfeit call, a trumpet blaring a falsehood—that their beauty is a lure to capture rather than an inspiration to set free. The inner desire to help and support becomes a lust to take and own. The hope to hear words of affirmation that she has been a good and faithful helpmate transforms into a hopeless search for eyes that admire and lips that speak words of appreciation for her outward appearance rather than for the beauty of her soul. And such a search never ends in true satisfaction.

You, however, are listening to your creator’s call, a gentle voice within that whispers reminders of how you were really fashioned, to be a woman of virtue, of inner beauty, of priceless value. The trumpet announces your need to strut, expose, and seduce, while the inner voice sings of ways to dress your soul in virtue—to feed the hungry, cover those laid bare, infuse encouragement into the hearts of the downtrodden, and nurture the victims of poverty, disease, and abandonment.

As a young woman of virtue, you understand what will happen if you heed the trumpet’s call to lure with flesh and flair. You will draw attention, but from whom? Someone who values face and form but not the heart. He will take, use, and abuse. His desire is for his own benefit, because what his eyes perceive is a girl who offers to fulfill the cravings of his body, and he responds, not with love, but with lust for his own satisfaction. And when your flower of youth fades, he will not perceive value in your soul, and you will never achieve the holy union of hearts for which you were created.

If you listen to the creator’s call, you will suffer temporary loss. When you pour out compassion and pity instead of skin and superficiality, you will be considered old-fashioned, out-of-touch, a prude. Yet, within the fair bosom you are saving for a true warrior, you will be nurturing a heart of unspoiled beauty, for it has not been taken at a cheap price. It has not been hardened by a wolf who captures, abuses, and leaves. And with such a heart, you will be able to reach out and be the captain’s sail, the warrior’s reason for drawing his sword, and the soothing salve for hearts less whole than your own.

The heart of a woman is more precious than pearls, and a man of worth sees it as a priceless treasure. He knows that she is the energy that drives his purpose, and without her, the pursuit of his vision for God’s purpose will be sluggish indeed. For the honor of taking that heart to join with him in fulfilling that vision, he will give his life, his heart, and his soul. The woman who has prepared her heart for that adventure will never regret the small price she paid. Scorn fades, and satisfaction blossoms. Contempt crumbles to dust, and contentment rises in its place. Ridicule is forgotten, while refreshment of the soul lives for as long as the heart pumps its life-giving energy.

Whether you take up the sword yourself or choose to unite with a warrior, now is the time to live according to this standard. It might seem that you are walking the path alone, yet, you are never alone. The One who planted the heart within you will never leave your side, and He will continue to sing the song that fashioned you as a woman of virtue. Listen. It is there. You will have to tune out the surrounding noise, but the sounds of love and virtue will never be silenced, if only you know the Singer and His song."